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HAC-Patrol Sqns

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HAC-Patrol Sqns

Post by Guest »

Hello all, i'm new here and looking for some information regarding the HAC and the Patrol sqns.....

I'm considering having a bash at joining them, but was wondering what the level of fitness etc required were.

I understand its quite a physically hard course, not like CTC or P-Coy.......more like SAS Selection, but not at the same level?

Any help from anyone would be most welcome!

thanks

John
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Post by gash-hand »

I had a mate in RM who's mate passed HAC selection. I think you'll find its as hard, if not harder then SAS selection. His mate later went on to pass regular selection.

Don't forget they are part of UKSF and have a very specialised job role, and also a cerimonial role if you like dressing up.

Once heard a dit that during the TA re-org organised by the govn, the then defence minister spoke to the HAC Colonel in chief and told him they were being closed down, the colonel replied that the govn couldn't do that because they were funded independent from the defence budget and brought their weapons and eqpt themselves :o :lol:

heard good things about them, but don't make the mistake thinking its an easier ride than SAS
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Post by Guest »

Thanks for the reply gash-hand.

Its interseting your comments about them being UKSF, as i too looked at their job desription so to speak and thought they would be considered UKSF (with their covert role etc) but it seems they are not considered UKSF at all.????

I am going to go visit the HAC next week to ask some questions, and get the low down.

I definately want to do the job they do, but what i need to know is how tough the course is, distances, timings expected etc.........there is no point joining up now, if my fitness isnt up to the task.

anybody else heard anything?

John
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Post by josephwells »

What is HAC? The SAS?
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Post by chunky from york »

Joseph Wells,


The HAC (Honorable Artillery Company ) is one of the oldest formations in the British Army.

They consider themselves more elite than any Cavalry unit and many prominent men (ex PM Ted Heath I believe is one) as members.

A Reserve unit, it has for many years tried to emulate the SAS, by combining forward artillery observation with long range reconnaissance.

I don't know about independent financing, but they are a very rich organization.
Chunky from York



I may not be the man I was, but I was
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RE: Hac

Post by josephwells »

Chunky

They sound interesting, do you know of a book on them at all??

thanks Joseph
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Post by dannyd »

Johnnyboy,

I don't know much about the HAC myself but I've got a mate at university who is ex 29 Cdo RA and I know he was thinking of joining them.

I'll see if he knows any more about them.

As for them being classed as UKSF, well that's news to me. I thought that they were just a normal TA unit. I knew that they specialised in forward reconnaisance but I didn't realise the training was so hard. I've seen them on exercise as well & they didn't look like anything out of the ordinary (but then again what does that mean :oops: ).

Thinking about it, I got a letter from them a little while back asking me to come to a presentation evening. I didn't go because at the time I was training with the RMR (got kicked out after failing a medical on hearing).
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Post by dannyd »

Right, just found that letter they sent me.

It says that they hold a presentation evening every month which will give you a heads up on the training and the role of the HAC.

Training is 6 months long which includes 6 weekend camps & 1 week camp and obviously drill nights as well.

Errr it doesn't say an awful lot else. It says that a brochure is enclosed but I can't find it if it was. If you want to contact them the number is 020 7448 0703 (moderators please delete this if it is not allowed to be posted).

God knows why they sent me a letter or how they got my address?????? As far as I'm aware the only interest I expressed in joining was when talking to my mate at uni and that was along the lines of 'hmmmm, I'll think about it'.

Anyway, good luck mate.

PS. Whereabouts in London are you from?
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Post by dannyd »

Also their website is:

http://www.hac.uk.com/

Cheers
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Post by Guest »

Dannyd

Cheers for the info.

Yes i'm off to the presentation evening this comming tuesday, if anybody is interested i'll post anything interesting i find?

The training is 6 months basic, the another 6 months Patrol Sqn training and i was told (i dont know if its true) that the instructors for the Patrol Sqn course are SAS instructors?

The job is basically covert OP's behind enemy lines, and you call in artillary strikes and air strikes etc, kinda like a forward air controller.

So from your web site and some other info, they learn, air insertion (helo) and water insertion, patrol medic, combat survival, E&E, navigation, equipment recognition, and target engagement.

Sounds pretty good stuff and all done as part of a 4 or 6 man patrol.
if not UKSF they are pretty close by the sounds of it, but i'll wait to see what is said Tue night.......a web site could make being an Army Refuge controller (bin man) sound exciting! (no offence to bin men)!

Cheers

John
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Post by dannyd »

John,

No problems mate, glad I could help a bit.

After going through their website and reading a bit more about what they do I was becoming interested myself. I seem to be a glutton for pain - I always become interested in the hardest units.

If you don't mind reporting back after Tuesday I would much appreciate it. I'm not thinking about joining yet - it would be the death of my degree - but I want to know all the options available to me in the future.

Cheers mate & good luck.

Oh, one other thing, you didn't say whereabouts in London you're from.
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Post by Gonker »

John,

I've PM'd you. You won't find much in the public domain about what the HAC actually do. It's well worth trying. Have a good time at the evening.

Gonker
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HAC = SF

Post by anglo-saxon »

SF is a grey concept at the best of times. One man's SF is another man's bag o' crap! I've seen so-called SF that I wouldn't follow out of curiosity. The HAC are a different story. You'll find two elements in that unit: The guns and the patrols. The patrols (at least used to) specialize in layback ops. Not an easy prospect - you certainly have to be on your toes for that kind of work. Hence, they do very similar training to the SAS, but just not on as broad a spectrum. As for how tough the selection is: My philosophy goes: If you have to ask, then you're not ready (psychologically, mainly). I personally have a hard time believing that there is anything quite as tough as SAS selection. Having said that, there certainly has been some incredibly tough selection processes over the decades since SF came into vogue; the Rhodesian Seleous Scouts selection, for instance, was absolutely brutal! A final thought... Consider this: "Selection" is the least of your troubles. The trick is maintaining such a high level of fitness and physical and mental toughness over a prolonged period of time after selection and continuation training is complete. You don't get to slack off after selection! What would be the point?

So, are HA SF? In my view, yes they are. I remember browsing through the Army course handbook looking for a LRRP course in '87. British nominations for the NATO LRRP school were accepted from the fol units: SAS (incl. sigs), SBS, Para Pathfinder, RM (incl. the then RM MAW Cadre), HAC, and the RAF SF Sqn. Recce pl members of line inf units with certain roles were also considered, but this was a rarity.

Just my 2 cents'-worth, as usual.

A-S
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Post by Guest »

Thanks all for the replies!

Dannyd.......Enfield

Gonker.....thanks for the pm......i'll get back to you after Tue night!

Anglo-saxon........thanks for the good info, do you mind me asking who you served with, and if you are still serving?

i'm not really worried about the physical toughness of the course, just if my physical condition at present is up to starting the course as opposed to starting later after a bit of physicl training on my part.

I.e if the entrance test is say an 8 mile run in say 64 mins or less....(8 min miles) then i'm fine to begin now.

if its say 8 miles in 48 mins or less (6 min miles) then i need to up my fitness a bit more

thats really what i was trying to find out,

cheers again

John
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Post by liverpoolirish »

I've worked with a few guys (and girls) from the HAC and they adamantly refuse to be called Special Forces, and they're not part of Advance Forces Group or whatever they're called these days.

The patrol squadrons are the TA counterparts to 4/73 Battery, RA. They're expected to stay in OPs for a week ISTR, as opposed to the AFG Regiments (21-3 SAS and SBS) who ISTR are expect to stay in OPs for a month.

From what I'm told their patrols selection is fairly tough and includes a lot of marchs culminating in a 120lb load carry. Drop out rates are steep, but remember everyone entering the regiment does patrols selection, but are allowed to opt out into the guns battery/ sig squadron etc. (about half their strength ISTR).

The course is 6 weekends of the Common Military Syllabus, then a week camp with the marchs etc. Their training is generally like that done by 100 and 103 RA OPs, just they tab slightly further to their OPs and stay in them slightly longer (100 and 103RA are light gun/ AS-90 equipped so fight in the mobile battle).

In fact, OPAc level 4 would take a lot longer to do (3x 2 week courses), so I assume they must do their OP courses after the PSC. As noted, only 15 members of the regiment were mobilised, which is fairly low (100 and 103 both sent several times that) and weren't used in their patrols role. The people grabbed were ISTR their comms specialists who manned fire cells in the Divisional infrastructure (met one, nice girl).

Yes, everyone pays mess bills. Yes, they're more than their pay. Yes, you have to resign your commission and join as a trooper.

Bryn

PS Yes, some PSIs are SAS capbadged, but most are RA/ RHA.
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