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Para Wings and Red Berets

Discussions about those units who make up The Parachute Regiment.
John Bull
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Para Wings and Red Berets

Post by John Bull »

My experience goes back to the 1960`s and I am not aware of current practise. Please can anybody with accurate knowledge of this matter either confirm or correct the following.

The earning and award of para wings seems to be unclear, which is why I am asking this question. Standards may have dropped like many other aspects in life.

1. Airborne Forces
Principally controlled by the Parachute Regiment.
Candidates must pass P-Company, before parachute training.
Successful candidates pass P-Company and the RAF parachute course of 7/8 jumps before regular para wings are awarded and a red beret.

2. Other Parachute needs
Other military personnel who need a parachute qualification must take the RAF parachute course, but need only make one aircraft jump.
They are awarded the Lightbulb.

3. SAS
These candidates do not have to pass P-Company, the SAS have their own selection course. They do have to pass the RAF parachute course and their wings which are different to regular wings are awarded by the Regiment.

4. Complimentary/Honorary wings and red beret
Question ? Are complimentary wings and red berets awarded to high ranking officers, CO`s and Colonel-in-Chiefs who have neither passed P-Company or the RAF parachute course of 7/8 jumps ?

Reason for asking - I have seen military personnel wearing full wings and red berets who have never qualified to wear them, mostly of senior or high rank.
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Re: Para Wings and Red Berets

Post by Tab »

Many people can wear the Red Beret even the ladies in the Payroll section if they are attached to the Para's. Wings should only be worn by those who have completed the jump course, even Prince Charles did the jumps, but was excused the P Course. At one time that light bulb was worn by troops who left the Para's and returned to their Parent Regiment. Up to the mid 1950's you had to be a QUALIFIED SOLDIER before you could apply to the Para's as at that time there was no direct intake into the Regiment, so once you could not cut it or you caused them problem you were RTU and lost your wings. In the 1960's there was blow up as Officers could keep there wings when they were RTU but soldiers couldn't, after this every one could keep there wings
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Re: Para Wings and Red Berets

Post by John Bull »

I thank you for the reply. Thsi business of wings and red berets is highly confused and often masked in intentional misinformation.

This is fact :-

P-Company and the following 7/8 mandatory jumps is designed to produce hard arsed grunts.

Sandhurst is designed to produce officers and future commanders and very rarely the two achieve a match.

Special Forces need very special men who are well above average and the selection processes ensure this. Having selected special men, Special Forces require special officers and commanders. The performance of a regiment is dependent on the quality of it`s officers and commanders. Poor officers - poor performance, good officers - good performance.

P-Company is designed to produce hard arsed grunts who go through swing doors the wrong way round and still win. Field officers MUST be equivalent to the men and must pass P-Company and the parachute course successfully in order to operate and command their men in the field.

Senior officers and commanders do not need to qualify to be boy-Rambo`s. They are selected to be leaders and tacticians who are responsible for the performance of their Regiment in achieving tasks and assignments. They do not have to hump logs over an assault course, play monkey games on a Trainazium or take part in some playground Milling practice. They are engaged and paid to command.

So to ensure that the Parachute Regiment get the best possible officers that Sandhurst can provide, it is necessary to waiver the physical abilities of these people in favour of their leadership skills.

For example, the best officer cadet in Sandhurst may not be able to crush a grape, feels dizzy going upstairs to the bathroom and has only jumped off the sofa, but has a brilliant gift of being a superb military tactician - a new George Patton in the making. Just what the Para1s need.

So OK, if these senior officers never even see P-Company or a full para jump course - what does it matter if they wear para wings or a red beret ? Just consider that they wear these insignia not as a personal achievement but in respect for the Regiment they serve. After all, President Idi Amin Dada wore parachute wings with pride, but the nearest he ever came to a parachute, was a golfing umbrella.

Parachuting is nothing - just fun stuff. women and girls, a whole pack of odd-ball celebrities, old ladies of over 90 and even dogs do it. I have done over a 100 jumps and loved every second of it. It is P-company that separates the men from the wimps.

Let me set the records straight - Prince Charles and Prince Andrew NEVER even saw P-Company and NEVER even completed a full parachute jump course. They attended the RAF parachute training course in 1978 which lasted about a week. They both made a disgraceful and extremely dangerous mess of their first jumps from an Andover, exiting head down and having their legs entangled in the rigging lines. Luckily we did not suffer a double exit from the next "heir to the throne" hierarchy .

Prince Charles has NEVER made another jump since that debacle into Studland Bay, Dorset which was so covered in green jobs and their rubber dingy`s that he should have had a dry landing, but ingeniously managed to hit the wet stuff instead.

Prince Charles has only ever that made ONE jump. Prince Andrew made a second jump, but this time he was given a 50 lb. kitbag strapped to his legs to ensure his feet went down first. An extra recovery precaution was taken to paint "DIG HERE" on the top of his helmet just in case he forgot to release the kitbag. Both Princes have never jumped since.

Both these Princes wear the para wings and both are not qualified to do so. OK, Prince Charles is the Colonel-in-Chief of the Parachute Regiment, so we can excuse him being allowed to wear the para wings and red beret. Not as a personal achievement, since he has failed in that quest, but in respect of the Regiment he represents. On other uniforms than that of the Parachute Regiment, he should only wear the Lightbulb.

Prince Andrew, who is exclusively Royal Navy is not allowed to wear para wings, since he failed the para course having only completed two jumps and those very badly. He only qualifies to wear the Lightbulb and that with the greatest and kindest generosity of those who sanction such matters to appease his Royal status.

After many years searching for details of these intrepid wanna-be bird-men Princes exploits with no success - the whole matter seems to be cloaked in secrecy for obvious reasons of image damage, I finally discovered THIS ! I am sure that all REAL para`s will find it VERY interesting indeed.

Prince Charles :-
http://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=2 ... 56,3056757

Prince Andrew :-
http://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=2 ... 58,4526348

PS - Well, they can`t stop you laughing, can they ?
Last edited by John Bull on Mon 18 Jun, 2012 8:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Para Wings and Red Berets

Post by Eddiek1989 »

MAROON beret!!!!!
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Re: Para Wings and Red Berets

Post by Tab »

Officers in the Parachute Regiment also have to do the P Course, after there stint with the Regiment they move on and up wards and over the years reach the highest ranks, but it still means that they have done both the P Course and the Jumps. The Regiment is now 72 years old so there are going to be old officers around who served in the Regiment many years ago who are entitled to wear both wings and the Beret. As far as I know Prince Charles did all the jumps, but there again he is not a fighting soldier but the Honorary Colonel in chief of the Regiment and could taken that role with out doing a single jump. Lets face it all the queens Children including Ann have an honorary Rank of Colonel in Guards Regiment but this mean that they are all soldiers.
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Re: Para Wings and Red Berets

Post by John Bull »

Eddiek1989 wrote:MAROON beret!!!!!
Quite correct Eddie, but the beret is as you know, widely called "The Red Beret" and the Regiment "The Red Devils", a respectful name given to the para`s in WW2 by our dear friends - the German`s - "Die Roten Teufel" not the "Maroon Devils".

Only pulling your leg.

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Re: Para Wings and Red Berets

Post by John Bull »

Tab wrote:Officers in the Parachute Regiment also have to do the P Course, after there stint with the Regiment they move on and up wards and over the years reach the highest ranks, but it still means that they have done both the P Course and the Jumps. The Regiment is now 72 years old so there are going to be old officers around who served in the Regiment many years ago who are entitled to wear both wings and the Beret. As far as I know Prince Charles did all the jumps, but there again he is not a fighting soldier but the Honorary Colonel in chief of the Regiment and could taken that role with out doing a single jump. Lets face it all the queens Children including Ann have an honorary Rank of Colonel in Guards Regiment but this mean that they are all soldiers.
Many thanks for your valued comments, much appreciated.

My comments about the two Princes is about as accurate an account of their para experiences as you will get, outside the secretive confinement of the MOD personnel Records Archives. All the Royals are in fact Colonel-in-Chiefs of many Regiments as you say, they always have been, but in common with Prince Charles they do not have to pass the selection ordeals for those Regiments. The posts are by invitation and purely Honorary.
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Re: Para Wings and Red Berets

Post by John Bull »

My OP has been interestingly hijacked somewhat towards the two Princes para exploits and senior officers. It is an aspect of British para wings awards that is confusing in respect of the original criteria laid down for awarding this insignia.

After my extensive researching of the web, plus personal memory of complete lack of news releases since the two Princes para attempts in 1978, I am more than happy with the comments and conclusions I outlined in my earlier post. Evidence to contradict these findings is non-existent.

Now to leave that subject, can anybody explain the current situation regarding the Lightbulb ?
I have never in all my long experience ever seen this insignia being worn. Is it that the British have aligned with the rest of the world in awarding regular para wings to ALL personnel who complete only the military parachute training course and the Lightbulb is now obsolete ?
For instance, in Thailand all kinds or people go around proudly sporting para wings on their chests and they have only done the parachute training course, not even jumped off a chair. These wings are almost identical to "jump" wings, just a small difference, barely noticeable. They signify that the individual is "parachute trained". Big deal eh ?

This makes perfect sense to me. Almost all countries have just ONE set of para wings and it is awarded to anybody who completes their basic parachute training courses - Military, Police, Security Forces, Medical staff, Uncle Tom Cobbly and all. The wings are the same throughout, although grades do exist according to parachute experience and speciality.

From the look of our own somewhat erratic behavior in awarding para wings Willy-Nilly to anybody who has set foot into the hallowed halls of the RAF Parachute Training School and complete absence of the Lightbulb patch, it seems irrefutable evidence that we are unwittingly following the same practice as the world at large. And so we should.

Parachute qualifications should be completely separate from the requirements and total control of the Airborne Forces crippling demands of P- Company which is purely a method of selecting their soldiers for airborne service, Just like other elite units have their selection courses throughout the world.

No course is more difficult than the French Foreign Legion and the American airborne forces course is just as hard or even harder than as ours. Oh no, we are NOT the best, although it is nice and patriotic to think it. There is no better feeling than having an inspiring ego trip, good for the moral.

I have no problem with that practice at all. Have you ?
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Re: Para Wings and Red Berets

Post by Tab »

John Bull........I thought I had covered that Light bulb in an earlier post on here. The Light Bulb was worn by soldiers that had been in the parachute Regiment and had returned to their parent Regiment. When I joined the Para's you had to be a trained soldier as the direct intake did not start until the mid 1950's. So you applied from the unit that you were serving in and went and did your P Course and if successful you went on and did your jumps and then into the regiment. Now if you caused the Regiment a problem, or could not maintain your fitness over the year or got injured you could be RTU. When you got back to your Regiment then you lost your wings unless you were an officer and instead of wearing your wings you were awarded the the LIGHT BULB which showed that you were parachute Trained but no longer active. In the the 1960's this was changed and every one could keep there wings, but by then nearly every one going into the Regiment had to go through the Parachute Regiments own recruitment and training centre which was then AFD at Aldershot. The light bulb was worn on the lower part of your left sleeve, see below

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Re: Para Wings and Red Berets

Post by John Bull »

This is final. All the controversy about who should wear para wings and who should not is evaporated in this summary.

By law, the law of precedence applies throughout and depicts courts decisions based on the basic law. All such decisions are binding.

In the case of Princes Charles and Prince Andrew, the decision to allow them to wear para wings after not completing P-Company and only doing one and two jumps is a decision of precedence instigated by the military and legally binding.

This instantly means that anybody who completes the RAF parachute training course and makes ONE aircraft jump is legally entitled to wear the full para wings. There is no argument, this decision is final by precedence, granted by the military authority and backed up by common law.

So we now have a clear situation where the full para wings can be worn by any person who takes and completes the RAF parachute course and makes ONE aircraft jump by precedent of permission granted to Prince Charles and Prince Andrew by decision of the military authorities and supported by the MOD..

No more argument - THAT IS FINAL !! If I qualified as above stated with only a single jump, I would have no conscience in sticking para wings on my shoulder and would feel every bit as proud as the two Princes.

AMEN
PS :- The Lightbulb has obviously disappeared into the annals of history as being a good idea at the time.

I sincerely apologize for making a big song of this, but after busting my guts passing P-Company and doing the mandatory 8 jumps including a night jump, I feel damned annoyed that two guys with Royal privilege come along, tumble out of an Andover upside down, get their legs caught in the rigging lines, but miraculously survive and then receive the same red beret and para wings as I did.

I would think that every para since Ringway feel the same.
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Re: Para Wings and Red Berets

Post by Eddiek1989 »

John Bull wrote:
Eddiek1989 wrote:MAROON beret!!!!!
Quite correct Eddie, but the beret is as you know, widely called "The Red Beret" and the Regiment "The Red Devils", a respectful name given to the para`s in WW2 by our dear friends - the German`s - "Die Roten Teufel" not the "Maroon Devils".

Only pulling your leg.

Image

That is all very true, i hadn't thought about that, i just remember when i was in training and someone called it red, they spent the afternoon doing pressups because the cpl didnt take too kindly to calling it red, like "1 of them craphat RMP's" :wink: :popcorn:
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Re: Para Wings and Red Berets

Post by timex »

JB, are you not confusing the earning of Para wings through P Coy with those of an honorary nature?

IIRC Prince Charles did the full 8 jumps, and I did hear that he did P Coy? No MOD secret when you have a full course of Para's and attached ranks on the course.

My Great uncle didn't do P Coy or 8 jumps, but is still hugely proud of his Beret and Wings at the age of 98...I would imagine jumping into Arnhem sort of cures that little anomoly.
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Re: Para Wings and Red Berets

Post by John Bull »

timex wrote:JB, are you not confusing the earning of Para wings through P Coy with those of an honorary nature?

IIRC Prince Charles did the full 8 jumps, and I did hear that he did P Coy? No MOD secret when you have a full course of Para's and attached ranks on the course.

My Great uncle didn't do P Coy or 8 jumps, but is still hugely proud of his Beret and Wings at the age of 98...I would imagine jumping into Arnhem sort of cures that little anomoly.
Thank you for your comments and I am not confused by a single thing regarding the dishing out of wings and berets, but my account of the two Princes jumps are absolutely correct within the realms of independent summary.

Both Prince`s did not do P-Company, they were excused it for obvious reasons.

Both Prince`s did complete the parachute training course at RAF Brize Norton.

Read the newspaper links I gave for details of their subsequent jumps. The accounts are by interview, NOT made up by some reporter.

Prince Charles made just the ONE jump and NEVER again jumped after that.

Prince Andrew made two jumps as has been described in this thread. He also NEVER again jumped after that.

These events took place in 1978 and there have been NO press releases on their parachuting interests ever since, which is conclusive evidence that it all ended in 1978.

I will not become engaged in any hear-say argument which states otherwise, those comments are in controversial abundance throughout the military para world and emanate from people who do not know a thing about it, or who are so engrossed with allegiance and loyalty that to consider anything to the contrary is an impossibility.

This thread gives the most accurately summarized account of our Royal parachuting enthusiasts available and is backed up by two genuine newspaper articles issued at the time. Believe it or not. It matters little anyway, other than an attempt to give the truthful facts about an issue that has shrouded in secrecy and become a sacred cow amongst the faithful.

Your great Uncle and his red beret, He MUST have been glider borne, because a para red beret was not awarded without the attendant wings, So he was "airborne forces" NOT a para.

Honorary awards of a red beret ? YES, but only to the CIC is acceptable, nobody else.
The red beret should only be exclusively awarded to fully qualified airborne soldiers. All other members of the Regiment should wear a blue beret. No exceptions.

Honorary awards of para wings ? Not an option, but a good joke. This is a "qualification" badge and like all other qualification badges cannot be worn by persons who have not qualified in that particular skill. You cannot have an Honorary Pilot and the concept of an Honorary Parachutist is an impossibility for any intelligent mind to comprehend. What next ? An Honorary Brain Surgeon ?

The clap-trap dishing out of red beret`s and wings simply diminishes the unique significance of these emblems and ends up in a hotch-potch of mongrel, unqualified and egocentric non-entities and not the exclusive airborne brotherhood that the birth of the Parachute Regiment intended. Personally, I am disgusted with the liberal attitude of scattering about red beret`s and para wings to every Tom, Dick and Harry that suits the purpose of the issuing authorities. But have the personal pride that I myself did at least earn them by blood, sweat and tears.

I rest my case and consider the thread closed. Unlike general MacArthur - "I will NOT return". I would suggest that this thread be kept as being the most accurate account of our two Royals parachute escapades and dreams that is currently available.
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Re: Para Wings and Red Berets

Post by timex »

JB, you seem to be on a crusade of sorts not sure why.. I can assure you my Uncle did jump at Arnhem as an RE with 4 Para Sqn and as such has the wings and beret to prove it.

Extract of 4th Para Sqn War Diary September 1944

September 18 0900 hrs, Sqn moved to Spanhoe airfield. 1210 hrs, Sqn took off for operation 'Market'. 1420 hrs, parachute element dropped on DZ west of Arnhem. OC injured, 6 ORs casualties. Capt Thomas assumes command. Slight opposition from enemy, no casualties. Advance Pty rejoin Sqn. Majority of containers lost on DZ. 1700 hrs, Sqn move off DZ to RV south on railway line. Defensive positions prepared for night. 1 Troop move off in support of 156th Btn east in direction of Arnhem. Glider element rejoin Sqn 1 OR casualty

I've been very fortunate to have done the jumps course and as such wear wings (or did until I retired), I was not Para Regt but RM and was very fortunate to have worked with Para Regt guys for nearly 20 yrs. They are justifiably proud of their History but a lot of things have changed with regards to Berets and wings issue. (All of 16 AAB are entitled to wear the beret, and those working at Hereford can wear the SAS beret and as can the guys supporting SRR, without being qualified).
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Re: Para Wings and Red Berets

Post by Carl Dowd »

Well Mr Bull, what's a muscle munkey doing here discussing Airborne matters :) of course I know the other secret you have because as well as me being an Ex-para I have thrown you out of a few C130's (On your basic)... :)

Mate I will get you all the information you are looking for... The Brothers attended the TA Para course just prior to my basic in 1978 and of course I know people! ;)

I could give you a complete brief on the wearing of wings, lightbulbs and upside down wings if you wish and of course including the APJI badge... You may have noticed that now they even award PJI's with their Wings... Controversial I would suggest! Any further questions? then please do just ask away... Para knowledge has a gentle and cunning way of catching out Walts and I have caught many..!

Things have changed down there mate since your day!

Ok... If you do not hear from me in due course then don't worry, we're all busy eh?

Be good and blue skies...

Carl Dowd
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